This edition of Forthright Radio marks the 20th anniversary of the first program that day after Thanksgiving in 2004. I am deeply grateful to Mendocino County Public Broadcasting, KZYXfm, and all the listeners who support community radio, for having given me the opportunity to host and produce Forthright Radio.

Bruce Gourely is an historian specializing in American History and the editor of Church & State magazine, the publication of Washington D.C. based Americans United for Separation of Church and State. He is an award winning author and photographer. Among his nine books are Crucible of Faith and Freedom: Baptists and the American Civil War; Diverging Loyalties: Baptists in Middle Georgia During the American Civil War. He also owns and operates the website, Yellowstone.net.

I recently had the opportunity to hear Bruce Gourely speak right after the recent election, and I immediately invited him to share his thoughts as an historian and a person dedicated to to preserving our First Amendment rights to help prepare us for what will surely be challenging times ahead. We spoke with him on November 19th, 2024 in the Beyond the Deep End studio.

Articles pertinent to this interview:

From the Massachusetts Bay Colony’s ‘Body of Liberties’ to today’s ‘Moms for Liberty’: A brief history of the anti-freedom parental rights movement https://www.au.org/the-latest/church-and-state/articles/from-the-massachusetts-bay-colonys-body-of-liberties-to-todays-moms-for-liberty-a-brief-history-of-the-anti-freedom-parental-rights-movement/

Supreme theocrats: The anti-freedom, anti-life, biblical worldview of the Christian Nationalist majority on the nation’s highest court https://www.au.org/the-latest/church-and-state/articles/supreme-theocrats-the-anti-freedom-anti-life-biblical-worldview-of-the-christian-nationalist-majority-on-the-nations-highest-court/

Legislating inequality: The Christian Confederate roots of Project 2025 https://www.au.org/the-latest/church-and-state/articles/legislating-inequality-the-christian-confederate-roots-of-project-2025/

The passing of Pat Schroeder reminds us how far we’ve come https://gazette.com/politics/pat-schroeder-women-trailblazer/article_a09b6882-c38f-11ed-82ef-833044f03ea3.html

““The women in Congress had to wage virtually every battle alone,” Schroeder wrote in her memoir of those early years, “whether we were fighting for female pages (there were none) or a place where we could pee.”
That’s right. For many years, women didn’t have a bathroom off the House floor like the men did. When Schroeder was there, women were forced to use the restroom inside the women’s reading room far off on another floor. Female members of the House didn’t get a women’s bathroom off the House floor until 2011.”

Education or indoctrination? As public schools go back into session, Americans United fights a rising tide of state-sponsored religion https://www.au.org/the-latest/church-and-state/articles/education-or-indoctrination-as-public-schools-go-back-into-session-americans-united-fights-a-rising-tide-of-state-sponsored-religion/

Federal Judge Blocks Louisiana Law Requiring Ten Commandments in Classrooms https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/12/us/louisiana-ten-commandments-ruling.html?searchResultPosition=

Thou shalt not bear false witness https://www.au.org/the-latest/church-and-state/articles/thou-shalt-not-bear-false-witness/

Texas Education Board Backs Curriculum With Lessons Drawn From Bible https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/19/us/texas-bible-curriculum-public-schools.html

Abortion clinics can stay open; judge extends block on license requirement for now https://dailymontanan.com/2024/11/18/abortion-clinics-can-stay-open-judge-extends-block-on-license-requirement-for-now/

Judge strikes down Wyoming’s anti-abortion laws in victory for rights advocates https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/19/wyoming-anti-abortion-laws-struck-down-pills

As nuns disappear, many Catholic hospitals look more like megacorporations https://dailymontanan.com/2024/11/17/as-nuns-disappear-many-catholic-hospitals-look-more-like-megacorporations/

Judge hears case over Montana rule blocking trans residents from changing sex on birth certificate https://montanafreepress.org/2024/11/15/judge-hears-case-over-montana-rule-blocking-trans-residents-from-changing-sex-on-birth-certificate/

Voters Poised to Reject Private School Vouchers in Three States https://www.nytimes.com/2024/11/07/us/private-school-funding-election-rejection.html

Trump Wants to Shut Down the Department of Education? Is That Possible? https://www.nytimes.com/2024/09/10/us/shut-down-department-of-education-trump.html

Colorado parolee who refused to take part in Christian worship wins settlement https://www.au.org/the-latest/church-and-state/articles/colorado-parolee-who-refused-to-take-part-in-christian-worship-wins-settlement/

Supreme Court abortion ruling fails to provide protection, AU says https://www.au.org/the-latest/church-and-state/articles/supreme-court-abortion-ruling-fails-to-provide-protection-au-says/

‘Partisan politics’: how efforts to overturn the Johnson amendment could upend campaign finance https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/14/johnson-amendment-campaign-finance

Christian Nationalist Podcasters Want to Take Over Tennessee County https://www.newsweek.com/christian-nationalists-plans-community-tennessee-county-1987879

Revealed: trans rights case at US supreme court features doctors previously discredited by judges https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/nov/21/supreme-court-trans-rights-doctors-testimonies-bias

Trump’s Pentagon pick Hegseth wrote of US military taking sides in ‘civil war’ https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/22/trump-defense-secretary-pete-hegseth-book

Republican bathroom bill targets Congress’s first transgender member https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2024/nov/19/sarah-mcbride-congress-bathroom-bill-transgender

A lawsuit of biblical proportions: Americans United representing parents, students, teachers and clergy in challenge to Oklahoma state superintendent’s plan to force Bibles into public schools https://www.au.org/the-latest/church-and-state/articles/a-lawsuit-of-biblical-proportions-americans-united-representing-parents-students-teachers-and-clergy-in-challenge-to-oklahoma-state-superintendents-plan-to-force-bibles-into-public-schools/

Oklahoma Students Mandated To Watch Video Announcing New Religious Department https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bc-us-religious-freedom-office-oklahoma_n_6738e2bae4b0520a467732ca

Louisiana students who were sent to church will be able to pursue legal action https://www.au.org/the-latest/church-and-state/articles/louisiana-students-who-were-sent-to-church-will-be-able-to-pursue-legal-action/

Opinion analysis: Court rules that religious schools cannot be excluded from state funding for private schools https://www.scotusblog.com/2020/06/opinion-analysis-court-rules-that-religious-schools-cannot-be-excluded-from-state-funding-for-private-schools/

South Carolina Supreme Court strikes down school voucher plan https://www.au.org/the-latest/church-and-state/articles/south-carolina-supreme-court-strikes-down-school-voucher-plan/